F-4 Phantom

Aviation & Simulation Topics
Dash
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Annapolis

F-4 Phantom

Post by Dash » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:33 am

So, I was looking at this old picture I have on my desk of me a couple years back at an air museum. I was posed in front of this F-4 that had markings just like the thunderbirds. I noticed this a couple weeks ago, but disregarded it and just told myself, "the Thunderbirds fly the F-16, not the F-4." And today, I looked at the picture and noticed an "8" on the tail. IT'S A THUNDERBIRD!...so I did a Google search and to my surprise, kindu', I found this.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/mil ... hunder.htm

What other planes did they fly?

The F-4 is my favorite plane btw.
User avatar
Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 9202
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mooresville, NC

Post by Lawndart » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:08 pm

F-84F/G's, F-100, F-105, F-4, T-38 and F-16's (since 1983) off the top of my head. I think that sums it up...

You can check out http://www.thunderbirdsalumni.com for some history and look under the picture section for photos from each era.

BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart
User avatar
TBT_Piper
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by TBT_Piper » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:34 pm

LawnDart wrote: BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart

I do! I do! But I don't wanna spoil it. LOL
Image
Dash
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Annapolis

Post by Dash » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:30 pm

LawnDart wrote:BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart
I have no idea. Are you asking me or testing me?

-Dash
User avatar
Burner
Virtual Thunderbird Alumnus
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Burner » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:03 am

Dash wrote:
LawnDart wrote:BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart
I have no idea. Are you asking me or testing me?

-Dash
More important that you know the show front and back- that's a test. This is trivia.

:o
Image
Dash
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Annapolis

Post by Dash » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:36 am

Burner wrote:
Dash wrote:
LawnDart wrote:BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart
I have no idea. Are you asking me or testing me?

-Dash
More important that you know the show front and back- that's a test. This is trivia.

:o
Haha, nice. But seriously, why is the 4 darkened?

-Dash
User avatar
lieutfunaki
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Post by lieutfunaki » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:02 pm

As I understand that F-4 phantom is the only aircraft that both the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds used as their ride. Gorgeous plane...not really known for its aerobatic ability till both teams chose it. They say that the entire 6 bird T-38 team burned less fuel each show than one of those F-4s did. The Blues used an F-4J, and the T-birds used the E model.
With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good.®

Athlon 64 3200+, 3 GB DDR 400, GeForce 7600GS 512MB, 21" monitor
User avatar
lieutfunaki
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Post by lieutfunaki » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:07 pm

LawnDart wrote:BTW, do you know why the tail of #4 is blackened in those pictures you linked?

LawnDart


Here is a hint for you all. The tail of the slot was never PAINTED black. :)

Please tell me someone on here knew this already.

Dash wrote:The F-4 is my fav. plane btw
One of mine too Dash, personally I'd like to paint the lomac F-4E as a T-bird, make it flyable (along with an F-5) and do some historical flights. Or even just do the F-4 routine...there were some really neat maneuvers they performed like the 360 roll to arrowhead where both the wing positions spread and then rolled which caused them to fall into the wing position on the slot pilot. Gives me chills just thinking about it.
With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good.®

Athlon 64 3200+, 3 GB DDR 400, GeForce 7600GS 512MB, 21" monitor
Dash
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Annapolis

Post by Dash » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:12 pm

DUDE, that is SO sweet. Man, that seems like a dangerous stunt.

-Dash
User avatar
Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 9202
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mooresville, NC

Post by Lawndart » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:46 pm

That is a sweet move and it's called "Rollback to Arrowhead", something you might see in our next movie possibly, maybe... ehrmm, likely! :wink:

Another hint for the previous Q: Think about where #4's tail spends most of the time in the formation and those J79 turbojets the Phantom had sped this process up somewhat too...

LawnDart
User avatar
TBT_Piper
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by TBT_Piper » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:54 pm

LawnDart wrote: Another hint for the previous Q: Think about where #4's tail spends most of the time in the formation and those J79 turbojets the Phantom had sped this process up somewhat too...

LawnDart
Well now you just gave it away. DOH!!!
Image
User avatar
lieutfunaki
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Post by lieutfunaki » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:00 pm

LawnDart wrote:That is a sweet move and it's called "Rollback to Arrowhead", something you might see in our next movie possibly, maybe... ehrmm, likely! :wink:

Another hint for the previous Q: Think about where #4's tail spends most of the time in the formation and those J79 turbojets the Phantom had sped this process up somewhat too...

LawnDart
The F-4 was such a dirty bird, I love it. Brute power with zero efficiency!!!!!! As long as you didn't perform an immelman, it was a darn stable platform too.
With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good.®

Athlon 64 3200+, 3 GB DDR 400, GeForce 7600GS 512MB, 21" monitor
User avatar
Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbird
Posts: 9202
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mooresville, NC

Post by Lawndart » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:10 pm

They flew the F-4 in the heritage flight at Shaw AFB earlier this year along with a P-51, F-16 and F-15 when I was there and it looked awesome! It was mighty fast too on the flyby they did...

Curious about the immelmann... was it unstable in the F-4's?

LawnDart
User avatar
lieutfunaki
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Post by lieutfunaki » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:42 am

LD, yes...uncontrolled spins in the F-4 took more lives than any other one element of its missions or performance as I understand. I have tried today to find you an online resource regarding this, but have instead fallen back to the old paper copies. Out of a book which no longer has a front or rear cover, or even the first few or last few pages comes the following quote (this book is the best resource ever I wish I had its name):

"A typical combat incident might involve the pilot rolling out of an immelman turn...with his speed a little low and the aircraft beginning to buffet. A little left aileron applied to quicken the roll might at first seem a good idea. As the nose yaws below the horizon, all seems well - that's the direction he wants to go - but when the wings come level and the nose still yaws left and the roll continues, it's too late to consult the rule book. The nose goes down and under, and the aircraft is spinning.

More dangerous is the flat spin, which can develop within one or two turns after loss of control. The aircraft yaws by around 80 degs. per second without noticeable changes in pitch or roll. No reliable method of recovery by using aerodynamic controls or the drag chute are known, so ejection is presumably the only solution."

I presume this is why in the ANCIENT Threshold Productions video "Blue Angels a view from the cockpit" the lead solo calls out some expletive or another (it's bleeped) and after being questioned by the Boss as to what was up he responds:

"I was at 35kts at the top of that one Boss"

"You alright?"

"Yeah, but it scared me Boss, I was SCARED is all"

The book is, I suspect, by Bill Gunston since he wrote the forward. In its 650 HUGE pages it only covers the A-10, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-111, Harrier, Migs, B-1B, F-4, and the F-14.
With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good.®

Athlon 64 3200+, 3 GB DDR 400, GeForce 7600GS 512MB, 21" monitor
Dash
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Annapolis

Post by Dash » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:33 am

LawnDart wrote:That is a sweet move and it's called "Rollback to Arrowhead", something you might see in our next movie possibly, maybe... ehrmm, likely! :wink:

Another hint for the previous Q: Think about where #4's tail spends most of the time in the formation and those J79 turbojets the Phantom had sped this process up somewhat too...

LawnDart
Guys, cut me some slack here, I'm totally not gettings this! :oops:

-Dash
Post Reply